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May. 15th, 2005 12:48 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
pipistrellafelixGuilliadun is beginning to annoy me, as is Eliduc. I love the story, really; but I have very little sympathy for the man. I mean, he did rather bring it on himself. I have a bit more for the poor girl--I mean, he didn't tell her he was married--but really, all this fainting and moaning and weeping and wailing....
Allie, you'd better find me Lynette soon...I need a dose of courtly practicality to go along with this pathetic lovesickness. *snerk*
[Which makes me wonder why I read these stories, beyond the necessity of homework? I'm rather enjoying sitting here and rolling my eyes at the antics of these characters. They're so insane.]
There are actually ladies in Eliduc
-contrast with the lack of women in Roland? Only women are Roland's girlfriend (as a prize / emphasis of grief) and the queen (also as prize? emphasis of superiority of Christianity?)
--emphasis in Roland is the homosocial bond. hurrah for warrior bonds between men.
"His wife was noble and wise…they lived together for a long time and loved each other with great loyalty." (111)
constrast with "Eliduc's lord, the King of Brittany, loved him dearly and cherished him. He served the king loyally…" (ibid)
There is more expression of LOVE in the homosocial bond between the king and vassal than there is in his marriage. Both ties are held by loyalty [do all the ties in this story have that word used? probably], but the homosocial bond seems home to more genuine caring, at least in the beginning.
-"…he remembered his wife, and how he assured her that he would be faithful and behave loyally." Eliduc's pain at betraying his wife is not because he truly loves her but because he's breaking an oath [this really isn't the time to get into relationship counseling at all; but would he have betrayed her if he had loved her? he didn't betray his lord, whom he loved; and he ended up refusing to betray Guilliadun as well, whom he also loved].
Guilliadun--doesn't know he has a wife, she's not breaking any obligations
Use of words: "loyalty" "obligation" "oath" etc for bonds to the king--"you are all vassals of the king and should thus remain loyal to him" (113)--to the foreign king's knights. etc.
--"loyalty" also to his wife. It's a heterosexual bond (well, maybe; heterosocial anyway), but it's treated, from Eliduc's side at any rate, in much the same way as his homosocial bonds.
à this goes along with the courtly love thing--you can't love the person you're married to, because of the obligations to them. true romance is outside marriage, because there is only love without obligation.
--àon the other hand, how is Eliduc's love for Guilliadun (and vice versa) not an obligation after they've sworn to love each other etc etc and he swears he'll return (and he does)--how is this oath (loyalty, obligation, etc) different from the sort to one's lord or one's wife? is it because it isn't legal, but rather personal? out of free choice? (how much choice did eliduc have in his wife? and why did he marry her? àthis goes faaaar beyond the realm of the story and is probably pointless and not served by the narrative, but it's interesting anyway…
When he returned back to his country, "he behaved most secretively and his wife was sad in her heart because of this, not knowing what it meant. She lamented to herself and often asked him whether someone had told him that she had misbehaved or done wrong while he had been out of the country, for she would willingly defend herself in front of his people, if he wished." (120) à is she so worried because she loves him, or because she's worried he thinks she broke their oath of marriage? the latter I think. it's about behaving wrongly: breaking one's word.
àhe keeps his word to Guilliadun for the appointed time to meet her and take her back to his home (what he's going to DO with her there, I've no idea; does he think he can just tootle around with a mistress and no one will care? well, probably. but HE doesn't seem to care that other people will care; like, say, his WIFE.)
àGuilliadun "dies"--his wife is the one who revives her. and then leaves. homosocial aspect of the heterosexual bond, here? the loyalty / ability to do what is best for your lord? his wife is, in a way, eliduc's vassal
----à she's happy to see him when he gets back and then is sad when he is. she's an awfully nice character, actually. and is rather intelligent in terms of female characters (? don't know other lays), as she figures out what's going on…
she brins G. back and "he thanks her gently." and then is "extremely happy, and had never been so joyful" when he's reuinited with Guilliadun. What an idiot.
Allie, you'd better find me Lynette soon...I need a dose of courtly practicality to go along with this pathetic lovesickness. *snerk*
[Which makes me wonder why I read these stories, beyond the necessity of homework? I'm rather enjoying sitting here and rolling my eyes at the antics of these characters. They're so insane.]
There are actually ladies in Eliduc
-contrast with the lack of women in Roland? Only women are Roland's girlfriend (as a prize / emphasis of grief) and the queen (also as prize? emphasis of superiority of Christianity?)
--emphasis in Roland is the homosocial bond. hurrah for warrior bonds between men.
"His wife was noble and wise…they lived together for a long time and loved each other with great loyalty." (111)
constrast with "Eliduc's lord, the King of Brittany, loved him dearly and cherished him. He served the king loyally…" (ibid)
There is more expression of LOVE in the homosocial bond between the king and vassal than there is in his marriage. Both ties are held by loyalty [do all the ties in this story have that word used? probably], but the homosocial bond seems home to more genuine caring, at least in the beginning.
-"…he remembered his wife, and how he assured her that he would be faithful and behave loyally." Eliduc's pain at betraying his wife is not because he truly loves her but because he's breaking an oath [this really isn't the time to get into relationship counseling at all; but would he have betrayed her if he had loved her? he didn't betray his lord, whom he loved; and he ended up refusing to betray Guilliadun as well, whom he also loved].
Guilliadun--doesn't know he has a wife, she's not breaking any obligations
Use of words: "loyalty" "obligation" "oath" etc for bonds to the king--"you are all vassals of the king and should thus remain loyal to him" (113)--to the foreign king's knights. etc.
--"loyalty" also to his wife. It's a heterosexual bond (well, maybe; heterosocial anyway), but it's treated, from Eliduc's side at any rate, in much the same way as his homosocial bonds.
à this goes along with the courtly love thing--you can't love the person you're married to, because of the obligations to them. true romance is outside marriage, because there is only love without obligation.
--àon the other hand, how is Eliduc's love for Guilliadun (and vice versa) not an obligation after they've sworn to love each other etc etc and he swears he'll return (and he does)--how is this oath (loyalty, obligation, etc) different from the sort to one's lord or one's wife? is it because it isn't legal, but rather personal? out of free choice? (how much choice did eliduc have in his wife? and why did he marry her? àthis goes faaaar beyond the realm of the story and is probably pointless and not served by the narrative, but it's interesting anyway…
When he returned back to his country, "he behaved most secretively and his wife was sad in her heart because of this, not knowing what it meant. She lamented to herself and often asked him whether someone had told him that she had misbehaved or done wrong while he had been out of the country, for she would willingly defend herself in front of his people, if he wished." (120) à is she so worried because she loves him, or because she's worried he thinks she broke their oath of marriage? the latter I think. it's about behaving wrongly: breaking one's word.
àhe keeps his word to Guilliadun for the appointed time to meet her and take her back to his home (what he's going to DO with her there, I've no idea; does he think he can just tootle around with a mistress and no one will care? well, probably. but HE doesn't seem to care that other people will care; like, say, his WIFE.)
àGuilliadun "dies"--his wife is the one who revives her. and then leaves. homosocial aspect of the heterosexual bond, here? the loyalty / ability to do what is best for your lord? his wife is, in a way, eliduc's vassal
----à she's happy to see him when he gets back and then is sad when he is. she's an awfully nice character, actually. and is rather intelligent in terms of female characters (? don't know other lays), as she figures out what's going on…
she brins G. back and "he thanks her gently." and then is "extremely happy, and had never been so joyful" when he's reuinited with Guilliadun. What an idiot.
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no subject
Date: 2005-05-15 11:18 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-15 11:47 pm (UTC)yeah. don't i wish. BUT i have to write papers instead. it's not so bad...except i am having a hard time organizing the bloody thing...
no subject
Date: 2005-05-15 11:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-16 12:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-16 01:30 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-16 12:14 am (UTC)Could that have something to do with the fact that marriage is historically a property/social arrangement rather than a romantic/sexual one?
But that's just based on the quotes you gave above.
no subject
Date: 2005-05-16 12:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-16 12:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-16 01:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-16 01:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-16 03:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-16 03:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-16 04:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-16 05:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-05-16 06:01 am (UTC)